I haven’t posted for a few reasons - mainly because I had surgery a few months ago and just went back to work so I’ve been trying to get myself back in the habit of sleeping normal hours and actually being a semi-productive member of society.  On top of that, I’ve really had so much I wanted to comment on that I didn’t know where to start!

However, Dan (who describes himself as a white Englishman), posted a comment that I think gives me a good starting place for a post and hopefully I’ll be posting as often as I should from now on!

Dan wrote in a comment to an earlier post, which I’ve broken up to respond to it.  However, should this blog end up being a discussion forum, I could always add an actual forum.  Something to think about.

Now, for content:

Well you still seem pretty idealistic at least to me anyway. How can you possibly live in a racially harmonious society when white people like yourself allow black people to speak about whites in a way, which would be completely unacceptable if it was the other way round?

Good question.  However - the use of the word “allow” there bothers me.  You don’t “allow” another group of people to do something or not do something, unless you’re talking about a teacher and their students or a boss and their employees.  The idea of white people “allowing” black people to do something rubs me the wrong way.

As for your actual question - I’d like to know what specifically you’re talking about, because I’m really unsure.  I won’t say it does or doesn’t happen, but fill me in on what specifically you mean.

I won’t pretend to know that much about the USA and its racial issues but an alternative view could be that the black students in your class came from a background, which encourages a victimized mindset as opposed to one which is prepared to accept people of different races on an equal footing.

There is no doubt in my mind that those kids in that class came from a background that reinforces the idea that society as a whole views them as “less than” - they are brought up (though it’s very different for black girls and black boys) to - in general - assume that whites will not trust them, whites will assume any young black woman with a baby is unmarried and on welfare, whites will assume any young black man running is running *away* from something, and that the police are not their friend.  So yes, they probably do have a victimized mindset.

That said, I would hasten to add that it’s not like white folks are “prepared to accept people of different races on an equal footing.”  They aren’t.  We aren’t.  In some ways, that’s wholly unfair because the “right” way to view the situation is that we’re all the same, deep down, right?  Well, no.  This is not to say that one race is genetically inferior or superior to another - that isn’t what I mean at all.  We are *not* on equal footing, though.

It’s ridiculous to assume that slavery, and the laws that sprung up in the 100 years or so after the Civil War, didn’t have a lasting impact on the people of this country today.  You’re talking about an entire race of people that were not allowed to learn to read, be educated in how a business is run, have a last name of their own, or have any sense of self.  Their identity was wrapped up in their “owner.”  Then the Civil War happened, and slavery “ended” (sort of).  However, it’s not like the US Government lined up to build schools for the black children, and they sure as heck weren’t going to allow them to go to school with the white kids.

So you have a race that has - in theory - just been “freed” but is still in many ways enslaved.  They don’t have a large educated population to pass education on to the next generation.  The freed slaves living in the south couldn’t often afford to move north, and they couldn’t get jobs where they were.  Even if they could find some sort of employment, things like looking at a white woman could get them beaten, arrested, or killed.

People fail to realize that this was only about 100-150 years ago.  That’s not that many generations back.  Can we really say that it’s reasonable for the entire black population in the US to have “fixed itself” by now - because it’s not like the  people in the government (who are mostly white) were going to help them out.

What I’m getting at is this - yes, it’s probable that the students in the class had a “victimized” mindset - but I can’t say that I blame them.  However, that being said, I do not think that all black people agree that this mindset is the way to go - and I think that more and more white people are realizing that they shouldn’t assume that every black person wants to be treated as “that poor black kid.

Speaking as a white Englishman I can’t understand why people are so obsessed by race (although it is definitely becoming more and more of a problem over here) - I’m glad that where I live virtually everybody is white so it isn’t an issue.

There’s a lot of people who would agree with you, about living with people who are “like them” - it has to do with being a non-white race being a “stigma” in places like the US and the UK.  It’s the same thing that makes people avoid people in wheelchairs or with obvious physical disabilities.  They don’t want to say the wrong thing so they limit contact to avoid potentially embarrassing themselves or making the other person uncomfortable.